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MIB
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Joined: Oct 02, 2001
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Location: Innsmouth
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 Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Aquarian wrote: |
| I trust that the old mentalities will soon fade into nothingness. |
LOL, it must be beautiful in that little world of yours. |
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Aquarian
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Location: Miami, Florida 305!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| MIB wrote: |
| Aquarian wrote: |
| I trust that the old mentalities will soon fade into nothingness. |
LOL, it must be beautiful in that little world of yours. |
You don't think so?
I don't know, it's empirical fact that the concept of linear progression is duly evidenced in all nations of the world; even the most fundamentalist like Iran. |
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_________________
I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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MIB
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Joined: Oct 02, 2001
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| How is this so called "age of reasoning" any different then the Dark Ages? |
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lashmar
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Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Location: england
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| MIB wrote: |
| How is this so called "age of reasoning" any different then the Dark Ages? |
Got the light on.
Sorry had to say that.
We’re not really; we focus on different things nowadays. |
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The sixtheenth commandment “And when asked why, thy in power, shall do, Bugger all to help the general public, yea must answer `don’t worry sheep, lessons have been learned” and if thy sheep are still pissed, say `sorry`” |
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greeney2
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| What are the gay marriage laws in Sweden, the UK, Austrailia, Japan, and any other country we have posters from? Is it allowed or not? |
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greeney2
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Joined: Sep 28, 2001
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Why Gay Marriage Was Defeated in California
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Digg Facebook Newsvine del.icio.us Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print By JOHN CLOUD John Cloud – Thu Nov 6, 2:30 am ET Reuters – A supporter carries a flag with colours that symbolize the gay and lesbian communities during a "No …
Slideshow: Same-Sex Marriage Issues Play Video Video: Gay Marriage Supporters Protest Over Prop. 8 CBS 5 San Francisco Play Video Video: What About The Gay Couples Who Have Already Married? News 8 San Diego Nov. 4 may have been a joyous day for liberals, but it wasn't a great day for lesbians and gays. Three big states - Arizona, California and Florida - voted to change their constitutions to define marriage as a heterosexuals-only institution. The losses cut deep on the gay side. Arizona had rejected just such a constitutional amendment only two years ago. It had been the first and only state to have rebuffed a constitutional ban on marriage equality. In Florida, where the law requires constitutional amendments to win by 60%, a marriage amendment passed with disturbing ease, 62.1% to 37.9%.
And then there was California. Gay strategists working for marriage equality in this election cycle had focused most of their attention on that state. Losing there dims hopes that shimmered brightly just a few weeks ago - hopes that in an Obama America, straight people would be willing to let gay people have the basic right to equality in their personal relationships. It appears not.
The California vote was close but not razor-thin: as of 10 a.m. P.T., with 96.4% of precincts reporting, gays had lost 52.2% to 47.8%. Obama did not suffer the much-discussed "Bradley effect" this year, but it appears that gay people were afflicted by some version of it. As of late October, a Field Poll found that the pro-gay side was winning 49% to 44%, with 7% undecided. But gays could not quite make it to 49% on Election Day, meaning a few people may have been unwilling to tell pollsters that they intended to vote against equal marriage rights.
Gays are used to losing these constitutional amendment battles - as I said, Arizona was the only exception - but gay activists cannot claim they didn't have the money to wage the California fight. According to an analysis of the most recent reports from the California secretary of state, the pro-equality side raised an astonishing $43.6 million, compared with just $29.8 million for those who succeeded in keeping gays from marrying. The money the gay side raised is surprising for two reasons: first, the cash-Hoover known as the Obama campaign was sucking down millions of dollars a day from the nation's liberals. Many gays expected it to be difficult to raise money to fight Proposition 8 and its plan to outlaw same-sex marriage from Democrats eager to give to Obama and to the outside 527 groups supporting him. As recently as August, one of the nation's top gay political givers told me that he expected the gay side to raise no more than $25 million.
But a series of high-profile Hollywood donations, as well as a frantic, nationwide push for gays to get out their checkbooks, turned out to be quite successful in the short term. East Coast gays had been lulled into inaction by the Oct. 10 Connecticut Supreme Court decision granting gay couples the right to marry - a decision that hadn't required gays to write a single check. But gay people in Los Angeles and San Francisco cajoled and shamed their Eastern friends into opening their wallets. Thousands of California gay couples got married in the past few weeks, and I didn't see a single invitation to a gay ceremony that didn't include a plea to donate to the pro-equality campaign in lieu of buying wedding gifts.
Still, even though gays were fighting to preserve a basic right, it was the anti-equality side in California that seemed to have the most fervor. A symbolic low point for the gay side came on Oct. 13, when the Sacramento Bee ran a remarkable story about Rick and Pam Patterson, a Mormon couple of modest means - he drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic, she raises their five boys - who had withdrawn $50,000 from their savings account and given it to the pro-8 campaign. "It was a decision we made very prayerfully," Pam Patterson, 48, told the Bee's Jennifer Garza. "Was it an easy decision? No. But it was a clear decision, one that had so much potential to benefit our children and their children."
You could argue that marriage equality has little to do with children, but Patterson seemed to speak to Californians' inchoate phobias about gays and kids. On the Friday before the Bee story appeared, a group of San Francisco first-graders was taken to city hall to see their lesbian teacher marry her partner. Apparently the field trip was a parent's idea - not the teacher's - but the optics of the event were terrible for the gay side. It seemed like so much indoctrination.
That news came around the same time the pro-amendment forces were running a devastating ad showing a self-satisfied San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom shouting wild-eyed at a rally that same-sex marriage was inevitable "whether you like it or not." The announcer then said darkly, "It's no longer about tolerance. Acceptance of gay marriage is now mandatory." Many fence sitters were turned off by Newsom's arrogance; blogger Andrew Sullivan attributed mid-October polls against the gay side to the "Newsom effect."
Gays came back in some polls, but they couldn't pull out a win. Part of the reason is that Obama inspired unprecedented numbers of African Americans to vote. Polls show that black voters are more likely to attend church than whites and less likely to be comfortable with equality for gay people. According to CNN, African Americans voted against marriage equality by a wide margin, 69% to 31%. High turnout of African Americans in Florida probably help explain that state's lopsided vote to ban same-sex weddings.
Gays did win some victories yesterday. A new openly gay member of Congress, Jared Polis of Colorado, will go to the House in January. And thanks in part to the Cabinet, the group of [a {e}]lite gay political donors I wrote about recently, Democrats took the New York senate. The entire New York legislature is now in Democratic hands, and New York's governor, David Paterson, is one of the nation's most eloquent pro-marriage-equality representatives. He is also, by the way, African American. Perhaps he can help bridge the gap between gays and blacks that widened on Nov. 4.
View this article on Time.com
Related articles on Time.com:
What California's Gay Ruling Won't Do
Roadblocks Ahead for Gay Marriage
Viewpoint: For Gay Marriage, Time to Go Beyond the Courts
California and Beyond: The Battle over Gay Marriage
Ballot Initiatives: No's to Gay Marriage, Anti-Abortion Measures |
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SRO
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Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 4866
Location: BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| MIB wrote: |
| How is this so called "age of reasoning" any different then the Dark Ages? |
Well, instead different cave tribes fighting each other with clubs and rocks, we have whole countries fighting each other with explosives, biological, and fully automatic ranged weaponry. Larger scale my friend, with more efficient tools.  |
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"Victis honor"
"I'm not arrogant, I'm just the **it."
~Brother. |
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Personanongrata
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Joined: Dec 31, 2007
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Location: NAU
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| SRO wrote: |
| MIB wrote: |
| How is this so called "age of reasoning" any different then the Dark Ages? |
Well, instead different cave tribes fighting each other with clubs and rocks, we have whole countries fighting each other with explosives, biological, and fully automatic ranged weaponry. Larger scale my friend, with more efficient tools. |
Yup.  |
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__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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SouthwestRanger
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Well if CALIFORNIA one of the most Liberal States refuses to allow Gay Marriage, then what does that say of the rest of America ?
I understand the Queers and Lezzies are throwing temper tantrums in California as we speak !  |
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Saturos
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Joined: Feb 19, 2003
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Location: Dark Universe
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| What are the gay marriage laws in Sweden, the UK, Austrailia, Japan, and any other country we have posters from? Is it allowed or not? |
There are 7 major parties here in Sweden. 6 approves gay marriage, the other one does not but unlike the Republicans in your country they are not against gays in general, they just oppose the idea that Marriage should only define a Man and a Woman which I agree and they said themselves that partnership is equall in law and everything else that straight people obtains and receives.
Well we´ll see what happens when they vote about this next week or next month any of those two...  |
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The truth is hidden so well, it´s right infront of you... |
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Dafflis
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Joined: Jun 26, 2007
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Don't complain.In Islamic countries gays and homosexuals are killed.
You simple moron don't you realize you should
awake every day and rejoice in the fact that you live in a society where you are allowed to have sex with any consenting adult,and stand on the corner and rant about our society's inequalities.
And this is not a political party issue.It is a belief issue. |
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Aquarian
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 9844
Location: Miami, Florida 305!
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Dafflis wrote: |
Don't complain.In Islamic countries gays and homosexuals are killed.
You simple moron don't you realize you should
awake every day and rejoice in the fact that you live in a society where you are allowed to have sex with any consenting adult,and stand on the corner and rant about our society's inequalities.
And this is not a political party issue.It is a belief issue. |
And we should just ACCEPT oppression?
NO THANKS! |
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_________________
I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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Jaack
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Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2643
Location: Google Earth
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Aquarian wrote: |
| Dafflis wrote: |
Don't complain.In Islamic countries gays and homosexuals are killed.
You simple moron don't you realize you should
awake every day and rejoice in the fact that you live in a society where you are allowed to have sex with any consenting adult,and stand on the corner and rant about our society's inequalities.
And this is not a political party issue.It is a belief issue. |
And we should just ACCEPT oppression?
NO THANKS! |
You're not oppressed. You have the same rights as do I. You seem to think you're special. |
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"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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SRO
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Joined: Jul 25, 2004
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Location: BC, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: |
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That's like saying that the Jews in WWII Germany weren't oppressed. Perhaps not on the same scale or severity albeit.
After all, everyone had the same rights there didn't they? |
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_________________
"Victis honor"
"I'm not arrogant, I'm just the **it."
~Brother. |
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Jaack
B.V. Info Seeker
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2643
Location: Google Earth
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| SRO wrote: |
That's like saying that the Jews in WWII Germany weren't oppressed. Perhaps not on the same scale or severity albeit.
After all, everyone had the same rights there didn't they? |
Nope. |
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_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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