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greeney2
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Joined: Sep 28, 2001
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 Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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This is one we are on opposite sides Bloodstone. If it were not for *unions you would not have OSHA and the safe conditions you have today.
The workers are the $unions becasue it is the workers who decide to be active or not active in their own meetings, and all those elected people were just regular workers, but decided to be active in their *unions. I've seen many people who never went to a single meeting, do nothing but bellyache about how *&^ucked up their *unions were. But every contract that is renewed they pick up the increases in pay and benifits right along with them. No body likes paying dues, but like anyother organizion it doesn;t run for free.
Don't fool yourself about labor vs saleried employees. We work very close with our salaried people, you almost can't tell the difference in terms of work relationship. Everyone of those salaried guys knows if it was not for the our contracts every few years, they would not have the benifits they have. Our saleried guys have had many things taken away from them thru the years, and all they could do was grin and accept it. Cost of living raises were taken from them, but we retained them. They just slaudered them on medical coverage. It was just announced and done, and they have no bargaining power to question it. Without the unions#% you will see companies simply slash benifits and pay at will, whenever the have to in this economy. Guarentee you that the worker bees will be the victims while the saleried workers protect their jobs at the expence of the labor force. White colar sticks togather when it comes to reducing work
Big companies know that federal law gives workers the right to form bargaining units. If you don;t think they do have an impact than look at all the disreputable sweat shops that closed up in the USA, and opened bordertown factories in Mexico. They wanted to get slave labor, not be obilgatied to OSHA laws, and have to comply with EPA requirments. Those EPA requirments have much to do with safety, when it comes to issues like dust and fumes, disposal of toxic chemicals.etc. When a company wants to get around that I guarentee you will find hideous working conditions, sprays without ventelation, fumes, gases, dust, chemical exposures from use with no controls over disposal. Things like contaminated rags and other things uncontroled, left laying around. Those things are in the rehlm of *union@ protections in the USA, and they work directly with OSHA and other work related departments. Why do you think they came up with laws like safety for punch presses, paint, safety switches, GFI circuits, etc.
Sorry Bloodstone, but I;m willing to bet your industry if looked at, would miserably fail in many areas of safety and working conditions. |
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BloodStone
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Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Poconos, USSA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry Bloodstone, but I;m willing to bet your industry if looked at, would miserably fail in many areas of safety and working conditions. |
Not even close . We have some of the most vigorous safety regs in the business. They are followed to the letter. If they are not followed. You are fired no questions asked.
Like I said before, If you are working in conditions that are that bad, you need to speak up. Tell someone. Or find another job. It's you're body, and you're health. If you don't care about you're own safety no one else will.
I deal with Operating Egineers , Teamsters , and many more. They are all the same. They have their flat nosed higher ups, that just make deals with the companies all day long to see what they can get, and **ck the worker. Yet they all keep falling for it, and paying dues out the ass. In the end they are just as expendable as our non _union employess.
We have actually fired more _union employees than non _union employees.Their _union reps sell them out as soon as they get what they want.
BloodStone... |
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If it were raining hookers, I'd get hit by a fag. |
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BloodStone
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Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Poconos, USSA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Romney has it right . read article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/opinion/19romney.html?_r=1
I would also like to add that I think President Bush is doing the right thing here by saying no to the auto bail out. He is leaving 350 billion of the original bailout money for Obama to do what he wants with .
I think this was a brilliant move. He knows Obama owes UAW some pay back, So let Obama bail them out. So when it fails it will be on Obamas' head not President Bush.
Obama will look like a fool if he bails them out. And he will. So once again that dumb redneck out smarted them dems before he leaves.
BloodStone... |
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If it were raining hookers, I'd get hit by a fag. |
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SRO
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Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Posts: 4867
Location: BC, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| _Billy_ wrote: |
| Better the Chinks than the Japs. |
Really? Because the Japanese are allies, and they have human rights, and they aren't communist. |
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"Victis honor"
"I'm not arrogant, I'm just the **it."
~Brother. |
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Questioner101
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Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:44 am Post subject: |
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_________________
\\\"I´m disenclined to acquiese to your request...\\\" |
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Jaack
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Joined: Feb 20, 2008
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| ninor wrote: |
Why wouldn't they buy them? They already own a very large chunk of the US's National Debt. You can thank Bush and his cronies for that.
It might be time to start brushing up on your Chinese my American friends.    |
Riiiiight. Like of the D'Rats were in change of the congress it would have gone down. O wait they were. Possibly read the US Constitution and see where all spending bills originate.
Also, WTF do you expect to happen to all the "entitlements"? Like SS would have gone down riiiiiiiiight. |
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"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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ninor
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Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 3535
Location: Northern Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Jaack wrote: |
| ninor wrote: |
Why wouldn't they buy them? They already own a very large chunk of the US's National Debt. You can thank Bush and his cronies for that.
It might be time to start brushing up on your Chinese my American friends. |
Riiiiight. Like of the D'Rats were in change of the congress it would have gone down. O wait they were. Possibly read the US Constitution and see where all spending bills originate.
Also, WTF do you expect to happen to all the "entitlements"? Like SS would have gone down riiiiiiiiight. |
I thought your fearless leader George was "the decider" and that the final decision was up to him eh Jaacko? |
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For some, the mystery of evil is too deep to be illuminated by the light of reason.
~Dean Koontz~ |
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Jaack
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Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 2643
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| ninor wrote: |
| Jaack wrote: |
| ninor wrote: |
Why wouldn't they buy them? They already own a very large chunk of the US's National Debt. You can thank Bush and his cronies for that.
It might be time to start brushing up on your Chinese my American friends. |
Riiiiight. Like of the D'Rats were in change of the congress it would have gone down. O wait they were. Possibly read the US Constitution and see where all spending bills originate.
Also, WTF do you expect to happen to all the "entitlements"? Like SS would have gone down riiiiiiiiight. |
I thought your fearless leader George was "the decider" and that the final decision was up to him eh Jaacko? |
You know nothing about the US constitution, as the majority of Americans. No problem. Bush does have veto power and rarely used it, but that is the nature of US politics. |
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_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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ninor
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Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 3535
Location: Northern Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaack wrote: |
| ninor wrote: |
| Jaack wrote: |
| ninor wrote: |
Why wouldn't they buy them? They already own a very large chunk of the US's National Debt. You can thank Bush and his cronies for that.
It might be time to start brushing up on your Chinese my American friends. |
Riiiiight. Like of the D'Rats were in change of the congress it would have gone down. O wait they were. Possibly read the US Constitution and see where all spending bills originate.
Also, WTF do you expect to happen to all the "entitlements"? Like SS would have gone down riiiiiiiiight. |
I thought your fearless leader George was "the decider" and that the final decision was up to him eh Jaacko? |
You know nothing about the US constitution, as the majority of Americans. No problem. Bush does have veto power and rarely used it, but that is the nature of US politics. |
Right ... he "rarely used it", especially when he really should have eh Jaacko? |
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For some, the mystery of evil is too deep to be illuminated by the light of reason.
~Dean Koontz~ |
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Nesaie
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Aug 04, 2005
Posts: 10412
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| SRO wrote: |
| _Billy_ wrote: |
| Better the Chinks than the Japs. |
Really? Because the Japanese are allies, and they have human rights, and they aren't communist. |
You're too young. This is an old mentality due to WWII.
Check out some of the old WWII propaganda.  |
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Soma: All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects.
Have you had your Soma today? |
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Nesaie
B.V. Info-a-holic
Joined: Aug 04, 2005
Posts: 10412
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaack wrote: |
| ninor wrote: |
| Jaack wrote: |
| ninor wrote: |
Why wouldn't they buy them? They already own a very large chunk of the US's National Debt. You can thank Bush and his cronies for that.
It might be time to start brushing up on your Chinese my American friends. |
Riiiiight. Like of the D'Rats were in change of the congress it would have gone down. O wait they were. Possibly read the US Constitution and see where all spending bills originate.
Also, WTF do you expect to happen to all the "entitlements"? Like SS would have gone down riiiiiiiiight. |
I thought your fearless leader George was "the decider" and that the final decision was up to him eh Jaacko? |
You know nothing about the US constitution, as the majority of Americans. No problem. Bush does have veto power and rarely used it, but that is the nature of US politics. |
Um...ninor isn't American.
But, I'd put money that he knows more about our Constitution than the average American does.  |
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Soma: All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects.
Have you had your Soma today? |
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rath
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Joined: Nov 26, 2003
Posts: 1657
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Fact of the matter GM & Ford.........& just about ((( ANY ))) other company out there could already be majority owned By foreign companies or governments, who undermined a company's performance from the shadows, to reduce its value, thus making it an easy takeover target.
China has one of the largest sovereign wealth funds in the world.
Just look into the influence, china's sovereign wealth funds have had on Australia's mining companies.
http://www.theblackvault.com/ftopict-66525.html
November 18, 2008.
SPECULATION has resurfaced that sovereign wealth fund China Investment Corp is looking to buy into iron ore miner FMG.
The West Australian miner was yesterday forced to deny a report in Hong Kong's South China Morning Post that said Fortescue boss Andrew Forrest was in talks with CIC.
Without naming its sources, the report said the $US200 billion ($309 billion) CIC could bring in Baosteel Group, Fortescue's biggest customer, and China Shenhua Energy.
In February, Fortescue's shares received a boost on reports CIC and Shenhua were looking to take big stakes in the miner.
Yesterday's report said the stock was too expensive at the time, at around $7, but its recent slump to less then $2 made a move much more attractive.
Fuelling speculation that Baosteel could be involved, Taiwan's Chinese Steel Corp said last week it would probably team up with Baosteel to invest in mining and marine shipping.
As well as mining, Fortescue has a shipping business to arrange cargoes for customers.
Mr Forrest is in China talking with customers, but a spokesman said there had been no talks about anyone taking a majority a stake.
"We're not talking to anyone, there are no discussions," the spokesman said.
Speaking to reporters last week, Mr Forrest said he was not looking to raise equity, after his share price slid and there was uncertainty about expansion.
Another possibility is that CIC is in talks with Fortescue's second-biggest biggest shareholder after Mr Forrest, US hedge fund Harbinger Capital Partners, which owns 15.8 per cent. The fund was unable to realise huge on-paper gains this year, as Fortescue's share price surged to $13 in June, valuing Harbinger's stake at $5.8 billion, before plummeting. Yesterday, the stock fell 5c to $1.86, its lowest since March last year.
Last month, Mr Forrest confirmed Harbinger boss Philip Falcone had been trying to sell his stake but he had now taken it off the market.
The Fortescue spokesman said there was no indication that Mr Falcone's position had changed.
Story Tools
Fortescue surges on report Chinese may buy $2.9b stake
AUSTRALIA'S iron ore resources are luring China Investment Corporation and China Shenhua Energy to consider buying a 15.85 per cent stake in Fortescue Metals, a report in the Hong Kong South China Morning Post said.
It said the Chinese sovereign wealth fund CIC and Shenhua, a coalminer, had been in "informal talks" to buy the stake in Fortescue, worth $2.88 billion at yesterday's closing price, from the US hedge fund Harbinger Capital. Fortescue shares surged 68c, or 10.5 per cent, to close at $7.18.
The iron ore developer has yet to ship a single tonne of production from its project under construction in the Pilbara, which is scheduled to be completed in mid-May.
But given market expectations of a 50 per cent iron ore price rise this year - and the potential for continued global supply consolidation through the proposed BHP Billiton-Rio Tinto merger - there has been an intense interest in Fortescue, the so-called "new force in iron ore".
Responding to a query from the stock exchange, Fortescue said it had held "confidential discussions with a range of potential strategic equity investors. However none could be considered concluded or at a stage requiring specific disclosure."
Harbinger first gained control of 5 per cent of Fortescue at the equivalent of 60c a share in February 2005. It may be seeking to profit from its investment in a similar manner to the Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov's sale of a $414 million stake in Mt Gibson Iron last week. While Harbinger has not held a board seat at Fortescue, it last month nominated four candidates to the board of the New York Times Company in an effort to change the media company's strategy.
The fund is run by Philip Falcone, who once ran the junk-bond trading desk at Barclays Capital. There are rumours Mr Falcone managed to profit handsomely from Anaconda Nickel, the last major venture by Fortescue's chief executive, Andrew Forrest. Harbinger has since invested in other companies associated with Mr Forrest, including Poseidon Nickel and Moly Mines. It is also the largest shareholder in the iron ore miner Murchison Metals.
A resources analyst said it made sense for Harbinger to sell its stake to the Chinese, given the company's high valuation before producing its first iron ore - and earnings. "They have to say, 'How much more value can be derived?' " the analyst said.
He added that the Chinese did not necessarily have to be concerned over a rival bid for Fortescue, given all the miner's initial ore sales had already been promised to Chinese steelmakers under long-term contracts and the ore is too low in quality to be accepted by Japanese steel mills.
The South China Morning Post also reported that Mr Forrest had held talks about selling some or all of his personal 36 per cent stake in Fortescue to the Chinese steelmaker Baosteel and Minmetals Resources. The newspaper said the deal failed because a price could not be agreed on.
The Australian Securities and Investment Commission is seeking to ban Mr Forrest as a company director on charges of "misleading and deceptive conduct" relating to supposedly binding Chinese infrastructure contracts that fell over in 2005. Mr Forrest has not sold any Fortescue shares since February 2005. |
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greeney2
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Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 9864
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| We have actually fired more _union employees than non _union employees.Their _union reps sell them out as soon as they get what they want. |
You told me in the other posts, your employees do not have issues! You said they just work and get paid and they know the situation. Why would you need to be firing so many people if there were no issues?
| Quote: |
| We have some of the most vigorous safety regs in the business. They are followed to the letter. If they are not followed. You are fired no questions asked. |
So you tell people if you get hurt, its becasue you didn't follow the rules and you fire people for "negligence", over your bad working conditions? Your safty program sound like a "be Careful" sign at best, and thats the bulk of your safety program. Or are you saying you company has invested money in the nessesary upgrades and equipement so accidents can;t happen at all?
It sure sounds to me like instead of any reportable injuries, your company just fires people who get hurt, brands them for violation of safty rules, who by your own admission have no representation by unions(*, going out the door.
| Quote: |
| In the end they are just as expendable as our non _union employess. |
I rest my case! I can't believe in the same breath you would declare your employees have no issues, they just work and get paid, and that you provide safe working conditions for them. Who has their nose in the air with your attitude about labor? |
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BloodStone
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Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 1942
Location: Poconos, USSA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Cmon greeney, you need to read a little closer.
| Quote: |
| You told me in the other posts, your employees do not have issues! You said they just work and get paid and they know the situation. Why would you need to be firing so many people if there were no issues? |
That is non _union employees, the _union employees get fired a lot more, then non _union employees here.
| Quote: |
| It sure sounds to me like instead of any reportable injuries, your company just fires people who get hurt, brands them for violation of safty rules, who by your own admission have no representation by unions(*, going out the door. |
Not qiute so easy, They have very strict safety regs. If you get hurt, and you did not follow safety regs , yes you are fired. It has nothing to do with working conditions. They have paid enormous amounts of money to be in compliance. Have done all kinds of retraining.
| Quote: |
| I rest my case! I can't believe in the same breath you would declare your employees have no issues, they just work and get paid, and that you provide safe working conditions for them. Who has their nose in the air with your attitude about labor? |
First off, settle down, I was hoping you and I could disagree on a few things without turning into some of the others here. Ya know debate respectfully?
Now go back ,and read my other posts. You are taking a lot of what I say out of context.
I keep trying to tell you I am not griping about my workers. I get along with everyone of them _union, or non _union. What I'm trying to tell you is their leaders are selling them out. They are not needed. We have the same rules for both types of employees. The only difference is the _union guys have to pay for their so called protection, when in fact they are fired more than the non _union employees.
I can see the _unions have worked you over pretty good. They have done their job well, with you're money. Not to mention how much of that money you spent to be in the _union went to Democrats campaigns that you had no say in.
How does it feel you actually helped get Obama elected, and had no say in the matter.
BloodStone... |
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If it were raining hookers, I'd get hit by a fag. |
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martiandrifter01
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Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 784
Location: Xanthe Terra, Sol IV/Mars
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| Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Bloodstone is right, I was brainwashed into believing the benefits of being _Union. For six years in CA I was a member of HSEU Local 399, and in exchange for the princely sum of $20.00 (US) a month, I received some degree of of job security, the SEIU's retirement plan and Kaiser Permanente health care.
I traded it for slightly higher wages in a similar position as a 'company' man, and for the next four years had NO job security, the company 80/20 health plan with a $400 (US) annual fee PER PERSON, and a wimpy 401(k) "retirement plan" with "funds matching" that didn't quite match, i.e., 5 of mine for 1 of theirs.
Laws, Bloodstone? WHAT laws? Each state has different ones and some have almost none. Your mighty OSHA was stripped of its power years ago when it was turned over to the individual states to administer. The Fed OSHA only has power over the Feds and their contractors. The Fed labor statutes have been raped at least twice in recent years, you should read what's left of them. Lastly, don't forget that a lot of the laws only cover businesses involved in Interstate Commerce.
Go tell the waitress at your favorite coffee shop (NOT STARBUCKS) about workers' rights, Bloodstone, but make sure you're wearing something coffee-proof when you do it. |
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