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sotexas_spi
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 Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: How Well Do You Know God's "Past"? |
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To those of you who believe in the biblical God…are you aware of His origins? Do you understand that He is the culmination of a belief system that originated with the concept of multiple gods? That the concept of your God is an evolved concept?
Your own Bible reflects the existence of those gods, yet many of you argue as to the context of those passages.
But there is one passage that cannot be argued as “contextual”, and that is Psalms 82:1 (one that modern Christians would love to disappear, or in lieu of, contest the context): “God standeth in the congregation of the Mighty; he judgeth among the gods”.
“….he judgeth among the gods”. Interesting, no? He stands in a “congregation of the Mighty”….and who might the “Mighty” be? Would you argue it was Archangels? You would be wrong. Documented religious texts indicate otherwise.
To begin, the question must be posed….which “God” do you believe in…the “God” of the Old Testament or the “God” of the New Testament? “But wait”, you say, “aren’t they the same “God”? Good question.
The “God” of the New Testament is known as the “Trinity” god, the “Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost”. He is more an “anthropomorphic god”, in other words, He has been given “Human” characteristics and “emotions”, qualities that make it easier to relate "real" Human attributes to Him, in essence “personalizing” Him in order to facilitate the indoctrination of His “being” as authentic.
The God of the Old Testament is “El (Elyoh”). He was/is the “Father” of the gods of Judaism and, later, Christianity.
But if one truly believes in the biblical “God”, that person has to accept the evolution and source of that biblical “God”.
To determine who “God” is/was let’s work backwards. As posited, the New Testament “God” is an evolution of the Old Testament “God”, having integrated the “Son and the Holy Ghost”, among others, as we will see shortly.
The Old Testament “God” is known as “Yahweh”. However, it can be said that “El” was the god of Israel, while “Yahweh” was the god of Judah. This concept is also found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, (4QDeut.). Actually, earlier in the Bible, in Genesis 49:24-25, reference is made to Yahweh and El as 2 different, distinct gods: “But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob,
because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.”
However, let’s take the source of the “evolution” even earlier. We have texts, the Bible included, that suggests that El was the “first” god, then this belief evolved and El became the principal god of a group of early Israeli gods. Yahweh was the “warrior-god” of this second evolution of those beliefs.
This merging and evolving of the regions’ gods finally resulted in the aspects and personalities of El and the other gods being merged into the “one god” Yahweh.
It is known that even when the Israeli’s were “ostensibly” fleeing Egypt, some of them still worshipped more than one god. In fact, it is entirely possible that El was the god the Israelites worshipped at the time of the exodus. An event that, interestingly enough, is only found in the Bible and no where else.
But let us not digress.
Early Israelites did indeed have a polytheistic system of religion. (For those of you in Rio Linda, California, Oklahoma or N. or S. Carolina, that means they believed in more than one god.) 
In the Jerusalem Bible we find a section called “The War Oracles of Balaam”. It is interesting in that it gives us a pragmatic perspective of the “pre-Yahweh” Israelite religions.
It is difficult to dismiss these “Oracles” as they are also found in ancient Jordanian texts discovered in Deir Alla in 1967.
The point is that in those oracles we have references to 3 individual, distinct gods…El, Elyon, and Shaddai.
“The gods El and Yahweh are distinct gods from each other, as distinct as their individual names. Yahweh was worshipped as a war god from the deserts of southern Palestine who migrated north to Judah while El was the god of Israel whose home was Mesopotamia. Historically speaking, the two gods must be regarded as originally distinct that subsequently were related and finally identified through political and religious syncreticism.”(Biblical Heritage Center)
Now…up to this point we have been addressing the Israeli/Jewish/Christian belief system. In ancient time, the different cultures worshipped a variety of gods. And I’m not even talking about the other cultures around the world, just those in the Middle East, where Judaism, Christianity and Islam, found its’ beginnings.
My point is….other than contemporary Deists who believe in a “Power” or “Force” who has “god-like” powers, those who believe in the biblical God, have to resolve themselves to the fact their “god” is a evolved god, a anthology of other gods. (But had it not been for the "availability" of God, the newer, more contemporary beliefs might not have developed.)
There is nothing, other than the “words” of their particular god, saying in Deuteronomy 4:35 “Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.” One of many passages that God/Yahweh makes the claim He is the “One” god. (Question...did God have a stenographer who followed Him around writing down all His sage and wise sayings? Then....how is it "known" He said anything?)
But then again, you have good ole Psalms 82:1.
There is nothing wrong in having genuine “faith” in something no one can prove, but an individual must consider the source, as well as the agenda, of those who were part of the development of your beliefs. It is my opinion that the truly “faithful” Believers are so “in love” with the message, they overlook the inconsistencies and sources of how the history and that very message was manipulated.
“Facts” are facts. (By which I mean that the ancient literature is there to source and see for yourself. But you have to “open” your mind.) The “evidence” exists to prove my point. But you gotta ask yourself…is your faith “blind”? Do you even “need” to validate your faith?
All else aside….how does a Fundamentalist Christian validate their beliefs when there is so much evidence to show the fallacy and ambiguity of what their belief is based on? Which of your Humanly emotions drives you to accept and believe in what some would call bromidic folk tales and lore?
(Please notice...this is not a "challenge" to prove God does or does not exist, but rather a lesson in the history and evolution of that "God".)
But then....you can always read my signature and accept reality.
Pax Vobiscum  |
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Nesaie
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| Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly! 
I still think the Persians influenced that whole Monotheistic/Dualistic thing though.  |
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sotexas_spi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: |
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| Nesaie wrote: |
Exactly!
I still think the Persians influenced that whole Monotheistic/Dualistic thing though. |
If you are speaking of the Monotheistic/Dualistic aspect of the Good/Evil, you would be correct. God being "good", Satan being "evil"...two gods...this is Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
However I think it was the Egyptians who had a larger influence on the region beginning with Akhenaten around mid 1300 BC.
Zoroastrianism didn't come into being until somewhere around 6th Century BC.
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mr_headshot
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| So glad to have you back around |
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sotexas_spi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| mr_headshot wrote: |
| So glad to have you back around |
Hate to be the one to break this to ya, h-s...but you caught me on the
tail-end of my visit back to the Island and the BV....I'm headed out again this weekend.
But the sentiment is appreciated.
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Nesaie
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Yup, I was talking about the dualism of good/evil. If Christianity were truly Monotheistic it would also embrace the dark side rather than shun it and "fight" it. |
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sotexas_spi
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Nesaie wrote: |
| Yup, I was talking about the dualism of good/evil. If Christianity were truly Monotheistic it would also embrace the dark side rather than shun it and "fight" it. |
Eggzactly!! Give 'er a gold star!! 
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Nesaie
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| Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, but that is only the first step. After embracing the good and evil both, then we can realize that neither of them really exist. It requires us as humans to JUDGE in order for their existence. Nature is not good or evil, it just is. It is us who create the names of good and evil with which to judge the natural laws.
So, we are the ones who truly create both good and evil. That's a type of godhood in itself. Or, it could be a form of Atheism, due to the claim that God is created by man. If Dualism is good/evil and through our own judgment we create both, then realizing that is Atheistic.
Now, if Jesus actually said, "judge not least ye be judged" he may have been promoting Atheism. 
Then again, the following picture sums up the Dualism in the One.
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sotexas_spi
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Nesaie wrote: |
Ah, but that is only the first step. After embracing the good and evil both, then we can realize that neither of them really exist. It requires us as humans to JUDGE in order for their existence. Nature is not good or evil, it just is. It is us who create the names of good and evil with which to judge the natural laws.
So, we are the ones who truly create both good and evil. That's a type of godhood in itself. Or, it could be a form of Atheism, due to the claim that God is created by man. If Dualism is good/evil and through our own judgment we create both, then realizing that is Atheistic.
Now, if Jesus actually said, "judge not least ye be judged" he may have been promoting Atheism.
Then again, the following picture sums up the Dualism in the One.
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"If Dualism is good/evil and through our own judgment we create both, then realizing that is Atheistic"
Not necessarily. The Believer will argue that God gave Man "reason" and "freewill". Having done so, God created in us the ability to do no more or no less than He Himself has done, for in creating evil: "I am Jehovah, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, who does all these things"."
(Isa. 45:5-7), and giving us reason and freewill, He gave us the ability to make our own decisions...good or evil. It's "inherent".
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Nesaie
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| Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Dangit Sotex! I wasn't talking in absolute terms. Of course that statement isn't necessary. I was exploring the idea that there really isn't good or bad, but that events that happen require a human to interprit the event as such. That idea can be seen as a human is God, in order to judge and/or there really isn't a God...
But ok, if you want to go back to biblical quotes fine.
Yeah yeah, we have free will and all that. |
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Have you had your Soma today? |
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