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starman_
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 Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: The Christian Moralist |
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Over 2000 years ago, a man named Jesus, introduced a whole new philosophy of love, tolerance, forgiveness. A new age of love, peace, and understanding, if you will. A new religion, Christianity, was born. I'll say right up front, I don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, nor do I have any belief in a God, but I do adhere to the philosophy that was introduced by this man named Jesus.
Unfortunately, it didn't take long for Christianity to become a state religion, and turn into one of the most oppressive forces on earth. Christianity became perverted, by what I call the Christian moralist. One doesn't have to look far to understand what I mean. Just look at some of the so called Christian post you'll find right here in this forum. Statements like, God kills His enemies like a cancer removed. It appears that Christianity, instead of following the teachings of Christ, still lives by the old hateful, vengeful God that is portrayed in Job 1:8; "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil"? Slaves - servants of God that fear God.
Christianity no longer follows the teachings of Jesus expressed in this verse, John 15:15; "I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you". The Christian moralist has long forgotten the teachings of Christ. Long forgotten what friends are for. They are obsessed by the God of hate, vengeance and their absolute morality. Jesus said, “Love your enemies as yourself”, not KILL KILL KILL KILL! To me, the Christian moralist is a pathetic excuse for a human being. A thorn in the side of a man named Jesus. |
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"Isn't Life Strange" ... A book without light
Unless with love we write
... Moody Blues
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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The irony being, as the discussion between myself & TT progressed, it became more and more apparent that his conception of God, and our (humanity) place under such a God, is bleakly nihilistic...
What "grand meaning" is there in being a specimen to be "disposed" of, or if you're one of the chosen "lucky" few, a sycophantic yes-man who spends eternity singing praises to boost the ego of a vain & mad king?
...I would rather prefer to be obliterated into nothingness, or join my flawed fellow humans in God's own GITMO. |
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"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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Neal51
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: The Christian Moralist |
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| starman_ wrote: |
Over 2000 years ago, a man named Jesus, introduced a whole new philosophy of love, tolerance, forgiveness. A new age of love, peace, and understanding, if you will. A new religion, Christianity, was born. I'll say right up front, I don't believe Jesus was the Son of God, nor do I have any belief in a God, but I do adhere to the philosophy that was introduced by this man named Jesus.
Unfortunately, it didn't take long for Christianity to become a state religion, and turn into one of the most oppressive forces on earth. Christianity became perverted, by what I call the Christian moralist. One doesn't have to look far to understand what I mean. Just look at some of the so called Christian post you'll find right here in this forum. Statements like, God kills His enemies like a cancer removed. It appears that Christianity, instead of following the teachings of Christ, still lives by the old hateful, vengeful God that is portrayed in Job 1:8; "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil"? Slaves - servants of God that fear God.
Christianity no longer follows the teachings of Jesus expressed in this verse, John 15:15; "I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you". The Christian moralist has long forgotten the teachings of Christ. Long forgotten what friends are for. They are obsessed by the God of hate, vengeance and their absolute morality. Jesus said, “Love your enemies as yourself”, not KILL KILL KILL KILL! To me, the Christian moralist is a pathetic excuse for a human being. A thorn in the side of a man named Jesus. |
I love science fiction 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdtan8XjahU&feature=related |
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Neal51
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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PS I believe Jesus was warned before his demise, that if he did not stop
witnessing truth(love) that he would be nailed to the tree and turned into
a God. Guess what he told them...................FU.........
Jesus was a revolutionary
If you spend too much effort on the poor, there is not enough left
over for war, duh  |
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okiejack
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:06 am Post subject: |
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I agree that Christianity was abandoned early on when some humans chose the power of the state over the power of GOD. Christianity did not change! Christianity will never change. It was the humans greed for power and popularity that caused them to depart from Christianity. Even then, as now, there were millions of Christians that quietly worshiped GOD in spirit and in truth.
The reality is that most of the humans murdered in the inquesitions were Christians who refused to worship the state religion. |
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| okiejack wrote: |
I agree that Christianity was abandoned early on when some humans chose the power of the state over the power of GOD. Christianity did not change! Christianity will never change. It was the humans greed for power and popularity that caused them to depart from Christianity. Even then, as now, there were millions of Christians that quietly worshiped GOD in spirit and in truth.
The reality is that most of the humans murdered in the inquesitions were Christians who refused to worship the state religion. |
That's interesting, OJ. My own inkling on the matter is that Christ didn't change.. it is christianity that has "mutated" & gone bad. |
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__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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okiejack
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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Of course it's all a matter of opinion. It was not Christianity that changed. Christianity is still the same as it ever was, for some people. But Christians do not seek power or popularity. They live quiet lives doing good and trying to not let evil into their hearts. So for the most part Christians don't make the news headlines.
The Bible says that the kingdom of GOD is invisible in this world. So anything visible is not of the Kingdom of GOD. Also, the Bible tells us we can know Christians by their good works. Couple that with the Bible's edict for humility and it is evedent that Christians would not elevate themselves as human religions do. |
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starman_
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Joined: Jun 16, 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Personanongrata wrote: |
| The irony being, as the discussion between myself & TT progressed, it became more and more apparent that his conception of God, and our (humanity) place under such a God, is bleakly nihilistic... |
Pretentious, grandiloquent, pompous, gobbledygook and pontifical hooey, all wrapped into one. |
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Unless with love we write
... Moody Blues
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Item7
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I agree Starman. The religion of Christianity has changed. The original message is still there, but not many today follow it. Whats sad is that I think many people who call themselves a Christian today really believe they are on the right path. The Church can be blamed for false teachings, but each individual will be held accountable for not searching their own hearts.
Item7 |
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tarsustom
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Joined: Oct 11, 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| starman_ wrote: |
| Personanongrata wrote: |
| The irony being, as the discussion between myself & TT progressed, it became more and more apparent that his conception of God, and our (humanity) place under such a God, is bleakly nihilistic... |
Pretentious, grandiloquent, pompous, gobbledygook and pontifical hooey, all wrapped into one. |
Explain your accusations please, Star-man.
PNG, it isn't my view it's the biblical view I expressed. The only thing I said that could be seen as nihilistic is God's treatment of the unbelieving if they die in that state. I would like to tell you that God is instead planning on throwing a keg party for them, but as the bible says... it ain't gonna happen. If anything my personal view should be seen as preferrable to you, should it not? Afterall, I believe the unbelieving souls are eventually annihilated, rather than tortured perpetually and eternally. And yet you think my personal view is bleak? I assume, as opposed to more traditional Christian views?
Weird, I must say. |
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You'd be better off reading the Bible and then you'd know first hand what the Bible says and wouldn't have to ask others for their opinion.
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| tarsustom wrote: |
| PNG, it isn't my view it's the biblical view I expressed. The only thing I said that could be seen as nihilistic is God's treatment of the unbelieving if they die in that state. |
Actually, it's nihilistic in its entirety, no matter how loving your God chooses to be toward His "Chosen few", no matter what sort of preferential treatment you believe you will receive for subservience. Your belief essentially makes the freedom God gave to man a sham. Under the God of your conception, Man has no real freedom whatsoever.
It's the choice of a serf to be a slave to a Lord who rules by virtue of superior power, with no real rationale beyond "My might makes me right".
Is it any more meaningful to be the puppet or toy of a being who uses power arbitrarily, than an existence without absolute meaning? The fact is, the God of your conception offers no absolute meaning, either. At most, He may offer a subjective "higher" meaning, if you're willing to submit to his authority & overlook His occasional fits of irrational, emotional outbursts, as well as His ruthless engineering/directing of humanity (which also makes no sense, seeing that is needlessly cruel to do such if He is able to create ex nihilo).
Slavery or annihilation is no real choice at all. No real choice means no real freedom.
| tarsustom wrote: |
| I would like to tell you that God is instead planning on throwing a keg party for them, but as the bible says... it ain't gonna happen. If anything my personal view should be seen as preferrable to you, should it not? |
No, it shouldn't. At the very least, it goes against the ideals of freedom & equality that are the basis necessary for a truly just & healthy society, that which characterizes what is noblest in our species.
In my opinion, such a conception of God as a tinkerer who does as he pleases with His power & who needlessly creates situations in which He knows suffering will occur is insulting to any decent, thinking person. In the weaker-minded, it engenders anomic despair, alienation from any genuine sense of hope or worth. In a child, certainly, such delusion would be spirit-crushing. It would strip them of their future, negating their spiritual growth & well-being.
I see no substantial difference between your belief in such a God, and the belief some may have that Man was created to be the servant of advanced aliens to further their own agendas. Both are dismal, anti-human views, leeching human life of any innate value, any meaning of its own.
The spirit cries out against it.
| tarsustom wrote: |
Afterall, I believe the unbelieving souls are eventually annihilated, rather than tortured perpetually and eternally. And yet you think my personal view is bleak? I assume, as opposed to more traditional Christian views?
Weird, I must say. |
Yes, I do find it weird. You said above that it is the biblical view, but it appears here you are modifying scripture to suit your preferences. How did your belief that "souls are eventually annihilated" originate?
Is that just something you threw in, for your own reasons? Does your God mind you doing that? Or is that another "special privilege"?  |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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Questioner101
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:08 am Post subject: |
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They keep martyring the "peace-niks."
(Jesus, John Lennon, MLK, Bobby Kennedy, Gandhi etc.)
Why is that? |
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Item7
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Good question Questioner101,
My guess is because they threaten the establishment {goverments, ect who rule this world} I think the world is waiting for another great teacher to appear at this time, but thats scary, because from what I've read a great teacher will appear, who will make man believe he is good but in reality he will be the anti-Christ. {I'll stick with the dead teachers Lol}
Item7 |
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A true teacher is always a threat. |
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Personanongrata
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Item7 wrote: |
Good question Questioner101,
My guess is because they threaten the establishment {goverments, ect who rule this world} I think the world is waiting for another great teacher to appear at this time, but thats scary, because from what I've read a great teacher will appear, who will make man believe he is good but in reality he will be the anti-Christ. {I'll stick with the dead teachers Lol}
Item7 |
There's a remarkably easy way to avoid being fooled by false teachers, I've read. |
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_________________
__________________________________________
"The obstacle is the path." -- Zen Proverb.
"**ck it, we'll do it live." -- Bill O'Reilly.
"...................................." -- Harpo Marx. |
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okiejack
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Joined: Sep 29, 2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Personanongrata wrote: |
| tarsustom wrote: |
| PNG, it isn't my view it's the biblical view I expressed. The only thing I said that could be seen as nihilistic is God's treatment of the unbelieving if they die in that state. |
Actually, it's nihilistic in its entirety, no matter how loving your God chooses to be toward His "Chosen few", no matter what sort of preferential treatment you believe you will receive for subservience. Your belief essentially makes the freedom God gave to man a sham. Under the God of your conception, Man has no real freedom whatsoever.
It's the choice of a serf to be a slave to a Lord who rules by virtue of superior power, with no real rationale beyond "My might makes me right".
Is it any more meaningful to be the puppet or toy of a being who uses power arbitrarily, than an existence without absolute meaning? The fact is, the God of your conception offers no absolute meaning, either. At most, He may offer a subjective "higher" meaning, if you're willing to submit to his authority & overlook His occasional fits of irrational, emotional outbursts, as well as His ruthless engineering/directing of humanity (which also makes no sense, seeing that is needlessly cruel to do such if He is able to create ex nihilo).
Slavery or annihilation is no real choice at all. No real choice means no real freedom.
| tarsustom wrote: |
| I would like to tell you that God is instead planning on throwing a keg party for them, but as the bible says... it ain't gonna happen. If anything my personal view should be seen as preferrable to you, should it not? |
No, it shouldn't. At the very least, it goes against the ideals of freedom & equality that are the basis necessary for a truly just & healthy society, that which characterizes what is noblest in our species.
In my opinion, such a conception of God as a tinkerer who does as he pleases with His power & who needlessly creates situations in which He knows suffering will occur is insulting to any decent, thinking person. In the weaker-minded, it engenders anomic despair, alienation from any genuine sense of hope or worth. In a child, certainly, such delusion would be spirit-crushing. It would strip them of their future, negating their spiritual growth & well-being.
I see no substantial difference between your belief in such a God, and the belief some may have that Man was created to be the servant of advanced aliens to further their own agendas. Both are dismal, anti-human views, leeching human life of any innate value, any meaning of its own.
The spirit cries out against it.
| tarsustom wrote: |
Afterall, I believe the unbelieving souls are eventually annihilated, rather than tortured perpetually and eternally. And yet you think my personal view is bleak? I assume, as opposed to more traditional Christian views?
Weird, I must say. |
Yes, I do find it weird. You said above that it is the biblical view, but it appears here you are modifying scripture to suit your preferences. How did your belief that "souls are eventually annihilated" originate?
Is that just something you threw in, for your own reasons? Does your God mind you doing that? Or is that another "special privilege"? |
I don't see the point of people who reject GOD and then expect GOD to accept them. Why do these GOD deniers think themselves above GOD's law? But then when GOD says He will reject them for rejecting Him. They get all upset about it. Saying it is just not fair.
Why is being good such an unfair idea?
Our freedom is to chose which spirit we want to entertain in our soul. If we chose a good spirit we get eternal life. If we choose an evil spirit we get eternal death. We all know the rules. So there is perfectly good reasons for accepting the good spirit i.e. GOD. There is no good reason for accepting an evil spirit i.e. Satan.
As for "Special Privilege": Yes I do believe in special privilege for those who follow the rules. In the case of Christianity, choosing good instead of eivil should merit "Special Privilege. By your way of reasoning: The ones who practice good should be treated the same as those who pracitce evil. That makes no sense at all to me. |
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