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Aquarian
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 Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: Could the US Election Be Stolen Again? |
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TOLEDO, Ohio - With John McCain and Barack Obama already swapping accusations of widespread voter fraud, experts warn that a bitter and protracted fight could ensue if the race to the White House is decided by a narrow margin.
The legal battle over election rules has already made it all the way to the Supreme Court as Republicans fight to block potentially false registrations from being validated and Democrats struggle to prevent voter disenfranchisement.
Compounding the problem is the decentralized US electoral system, which hands often partisan local officials the power to make rules and maintain the voter registration rolls.
"I'm hoping it's not close," said Richard L. Hasen, a professor who specializes in election law at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.
"I am certain there will be problems on election day."
An estimated nine million new voters have registered for the hotly contested November 4 election, and the Obama campaign says Democratic registrations are outpacing Republican ones by four to one.
The McCain campaign contends that an untold number of those registration forms are false and warns that illegally cast ballots could alter the results of the election and undermine the public's faith in democracy.
Republicans have launched a slew of lawsuits aimed at preventing false ballots from being cast, the most high-profile an attempt to challenge as many as 200,000 of more than 600,000 new registrations submitted in the battleground state of Ohio that was blocked by a Supreme Court ruling Friday.
They point to investigations into whether liberal-leaning community organization ACORN deliberately submitted false voter registrations as proof of "rampant" and widespread fraud which McCain said could be "destroying the fabric of democracy."
But the Obama campaign said this was just a "smokescreen" to divert attention from Republican "plotting" to suppress legitimate votes and to "sow confusion and harass voters and complicate the process for millions of Americans."
Voters whose registrations have been challenged or those who find their names have been removed from the rolls are often required to cast provisional ballots, which are not immediately counted in some jurisdictions and are often rejected due to technicalities.
Meanwhile, a 2007 study by the New York University School of Law concluded that "it is more likely that an individual will be struck by lightning than that he will impersonate another voter at the polls."
"For these problems to be really decisive they have to be within the margin of litigation, which is typically a few thousand votes," Hasen said in a recent interview.
The 2000 election took weeks to resolve as Democrat Al Gore fought Republican George W. Bush all the way to the Supreme Court after Bush won the state of Florida, and thus the election, with a margin of a few hundred votes.
Four years later, Democrat John Kerry conceded defeat despite allegations of widespread voter suppression in Ohio, which handed Bush his second term with a margin of nearly 119,000 votes.
In the meantime, electoral litigation has become part of the standard play book.
The number of lawsuits filed over elections has more than doubled from an average of 94 in the four years prior to the 2000 election to an average of 230 in the six years following, Hasen found in a study published in the Stanford Law Review.
Misinformation has also been used to discourage voters from showing up on election day.
Students in Virginia, Colorado and South Carolina were wrongfully told by voting officials that they could lose their scholarships and their parents would no longer be able to claim them on their income taxes if they registered to vote in their college towns.
The Michigan Department of Civil Rights launched an advertising campaign this week to combat misleading rumors - some started by local officials in mailings to voters - that people would be denied the right to vote if they lost their home to foreclosure, have a criminal record or do not have photo identification.
Such tactics are not new, said Laughlin McDonald, the director of the American Civil Liberties Union's voting rights project.
Despite strict constitutional and legal protections for the right to vote, "the history of the country has been one of flagrant vote denial," McDonald told AFP.
Many of tactics once used to keep blacks from voting in the south - poll taxes, literacy tests, violence and intimidation - have been eliminated.
But some have been adapted, including the practice of purging voting rolls of people likely to vote for the other party by challenging them en masse.
"There's more (attempts at voter suppression) that's been going on in the lead-up to this election than any I can remember," McDonald told AFP.
"The fact remains the people who have the power to make the rules are all too often willing to do so in ways that serve their partisan interests."
© 2008 Agence France Presse
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/10/20-11 |
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hansdew
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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BloodStone
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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As long as Obama is giving ACORN 832,000.00 dollars.
It sure looks like it's possible
BloodStone... |
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If it were raining hookers, I'd get hit by a fag. |
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hansdew
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Lookit the wolf cry as the fox stalks the chicken. |
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Aquarian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| hansdew wrote: |
| Lookit the wolf cry as the fox stalks the chicken. |
Those machines either need to go to hell or they need a verifiable paper trail which is GIVEN to the voter after the voter is done casting their ballot that could be used just in case a controversy arises. Not to mention, kick the hell out of Diebold and Verizon from owning these voting machines. It's all about cronyism. |
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I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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greeney2
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:03 am Post subject: |
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And neither of you have a single thing to say about Obama and ACORN?
There is no "Again", by the say Aquarian, Gore lost in florida and it was proven.
By the way your atatements about voting early and Obama going to easily win, is more boloney from you. There is only a 2% spread in the polls in Florida, so it is not a slam dunk by any stretch. Florida is still up for either one. |
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Aquarian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
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This poll shows Obama up by an average of 4% pts:
http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/florida.html
*All polls combined
Yes, there is an again. The moment we have these machines causing controversy like they did in Ohio back in 2004, there is an "again". Also, the 2000 election was a debachle. It was the first time in history that a President was APPOINTED to leadership by the Supreme Court, not the people or the Electoral College in its absoluteness. |
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I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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Aquarian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| ACORN's registration of non-existent voters does not constitute VOTING FRAUD, it constitutes registration fraud. Thank goodness they were caught. |
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I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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greeney2
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It was the first time in history that a President was APPOINTED to leadership by the Supreme Court, not the people or the Electoral College in its absoluteness. |
You better go back to school and read a little closer the facts. That is not what happened! And you wonder why so many people tell you, you are a screwball. |
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Aquarian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: |
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LOL!
Surreeeeeeee Greeney. "So Many People"  |
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I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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Aquarian
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Did the Florida Supreme Court give the decision to Gore or Bush?
You answer that question first.
I already know. |
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I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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greeney2
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Every court found Gore's accusations were unfounded so Gore kept taking the issue higher and higher, finding his case was not proven. Gore lost and it was proven by repeated counts of the votes. Gore tried everything in the book dragging this from one court to another, until the democratic party told him, enough is enough, Concede the election. It was bad machines, it was old people who didn;t understand, it was dimpled chads, it was hangind chads, it was mess all caused by Gore being a sore loser. Gore tied our election up until it reached the point of the Legislature having to elect the President by law. The US Supreme court refused to hear the case and overturn the Florida State Supreme court. That constitution you talk about worked, because the Federal Government recognized individual States rights to govern themselves, and not overturn your highest court.
Do you not see the difference between a case being lost repeatedly by its merits, and suggesting not only the election was fixed but your entire State court system? Give it up, the count ended up in favor of Bush with every count. He lost by count, Bush won by the count. Gore had his 5-6 days in court, losing by their merits to your top court, and sealed the facts the count of the votes favored Bush.
That is not an appointment to the Presidency! |
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BloodStone
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The unconscious trying to protect the conscious. |
Not sure where I heard this, but here is you're answer for Aquarian
That's all it is Greeney 
BloodStone... |
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theking
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Joined: Aug 19, 2008
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Aquarian wrote: |
Did the Florida Supreme Court give the decision to Gore or Bush?
You answer that question first.
I already know. |
Supreme Court didn't put anyone in office. Supreme Court found that recounting was unconstitutional...for whatever reason... |
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"I fear not for the banning of the book. I fear for the hunger to read the book. Why should one ban a book no one cares to read?" |
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rob61872
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Aquarian wrote: |
| ACORN's registration of non-existent voters does not constitute VOTING FRAUD, it constitutes registration fraud. Thank goodness they were caught. |
What are the intentions of a person who commits registration fraud?
And they didn't just register non-existent voters, there are instances of people being registered upwards of 70+ times. There are also known instances of ACORN workers telling the people they register to vote for Obama. And not all have been caught, with less than 2 weeks left till the election.
Don't minimalize what they are doing. |
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"You can't trust freedom when it's not in your hands, and everybody's fighting for their promised land" |
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