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rath
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 Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: Remembrance Day 2008.....Lest we (you) forget.....11-11-2008 |
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Today, the 11-11-2008 marks the 90th anniversary of the Armistice that ended World War I and the virtual passing of the Great War from living memory. How on earth could such a man-made disaster happen? A look at the events of mid-1914 shows that democracy really does seem more peaceable than autocracy. If more countries had had democratic governments answerable to the people, there almost certainly would have been no war.
November 10, 2008
A POWER failure silenced Australia's Governor-General Quentin Bryce as she dedicated the new French monument to Australian troops at Le Hamel in northern France.
Just as Ms Bryce said, "I most gravely and sincerely rededicate this Australian Corps Memorial park to (the Diggers') enduring memory and spirit," she was interrupted by a loud bang.
Like a seasoned trouper, she carried on and began reading the Ode of Remembrance, but her words were carried away on the chill wind that sliced through a crowd of 500 at the ceremony on a hilltop overlooking the town of Le Hamel.
After Ms Bryce unveiled a plaque, Australian soldier David Andrews led the crowd in singing the 23rd psalm, but even his strong tenor voice could not be heard beyond the first few rows.
French Secretary of State for Defence and Veterans Affairs Jean-Marie Bockel then went through the motions of making his speech, and the prayers offered by the Australian army's principal chaplain also went largely unheard.
After five minutes, as Army Chief Ken Gillespie began another reading of the ode, the power was restored.
The master of ceremonies for the event, Australian War Graves Commission head Paul Stevens, later commented: "It was a pity, but these things happen. C'est la guerre (That's war)." The $6million monument replaces one constructed for the 80th anniversary of the Battle of Le Hamel in 1998. It was badly constructed, and black granite cladding imported from Victoria began falling off the monument after seven years.
The new monument sits on a ridge occupied by the Germans before General John Monash's "perfect battle" of July 4, 1918. It is slightly smaller than the original, and has been reoriented to face the village of Le Hamel instead of the rising ground over which the Australians fought.
Ms Bryce said it was a place where "conflict raged, tears and blood were shed, lives were lost, courage reigned and nationhood was affirmed".
"In recalling the accounts of the extraordinary wartime advancements of the Diggers in Le Hamel, we must also summon the story and images of the unprecedented bloodshed and loss of life experienced by Australians elsewhere in the killing fields of the Western Front," Ms Bryce said.
She then laid the first of more than a dozen wreaths at the foot of the monument.
More than 46,000 Australians died on the Western Front between 1916 and 1918. Of those, 11,000 have no known grave and are remembered at the Australian War Memorial at Villers-Bretonneux, 6km from Le Hamel.
Australian War Memorial at Villers-Bretonneux.
It was very moving to stand amongst the rows upon rows of grave stones of young men and look at the wall recording the names of the 80 000 Australians who died and who have no known grave. In the village of Villers-Bretonneux, all public buildings fly the Australian flag alongside the tricolore of France.
The local people celebrate Anzac Day each year -"Souvenir aux Australiens" - "Remember the Australians". There were fresh flowers on the village memorial to the Australian soldiers.
The Battle of Amiens.
The Battle of Amiens was the strongest blows against the German line during the Great War and came shortly after the Australian victory at Le Hamel. The attack began on 8 August 1918 The success of the Australian advance was stunning. The German army suffered 27,000 casualties, including many thousands of prisoners of war, and lost 450 guns, one of which - a 28 cm gun mounted on a railway carriage - had been used to shell Amiens. The Australians 'souvenired' this monster and it can be seen today, without the railway carriage, outside the Australian War Memorial in Canberra.
http://www.awm.gov.au/aboutus/index.htm
In later years' the German General Ludendorff was to write of the impact of 8 August - der schwarze Tag ('the black day') of the German army:
Our fighting machine was no longer of real value. Our capacity for year had suffered harm even if the far greater majority of our divisions fought bravely. August 8 marked the decline of our military power and took from me the hope that...we could restore the situation in our favour... The war had to be ended.
[General Ludendorff, quoted by John Toland, No Man 's Land -
The Story of 1918, London, 1980, p.372]
However, despite the success of the Battle of Amiens the German army, even in retreat, was still capable of fighting back. For the next two months the Australian Corps was in almost continuous action, with divisions only being pulled out of the line for short rest periods. A series of tough battles was fought by the Corps in the days after 8 August as it pushed forward towards the final objectives set for their advance over the plain of the Somme.
By 29 August the Germans had retreated across the Somme at Péronne. Between 31 August and 2 September the 2nd and 5th Divisions captured Péronne and the nearby German stronghold of Mont St.Quentin.
The loss of Péronne forced a German retreat back to their last major strongly defended line in France - to the Hindenburg Line and its so-called Outpost Line. General Rawlinson now gave the Australian Corps its last great objective of the war: The preliminary bombardment of the main Hindenburg Line began on 26 September. For four days the Australian artillery fired 750,000 shells at the German defences. On the 29th two American Divisions - the 27th and 30th - attacked but unfortunately the shelling in front of the 27th failed to eliminate many of the strongpoints in the line of advance and they suffered heavy casualties. Coming in behind the 27th, the Australian 5th Division found itself caught up in fighting to secure the first objectives and progress was slow. Further south, the British 46th Division had broken through and the Germans facing the 5th Division were forced back with the Australians in pursuit. On 3 October the last Australian infantry action of the war took place as the 2nd Division assaulted and took Montbrehain. With its capture the Hindenburg Line was broken. The enemy in France was broken and on 11 November 1918 Germany signed an armistice effectively ending the war.
The French, whose country these Australians had liberated from the invader, were grateful. The French Prime Minister, Georges Clemenceau, said of them:
"When the Australians came to France, the French people expected a great deal of you... We knew you would fight a real fight, but we did not know that from the beginning you would astonish the whole continent...I shall go back tomorrow and say to my countrymen; 'I have seen the Australians. I have looked in their faces. I know that these men... will fight alongside of us again until the cause for which we are all fighting is safe for us and for our children."
The Red Baron, Manfred von Richthofen, shot down 80 British, Canadian and Australian aircraft between 1916 and 1918 – more than any other pilot of the war. Yet it was left to the British to keep the legend alive: the most popular German Ambassador to London since 1945 was Hermann von Richthofen, given the benefit of the doubt because of his family ties to the Red Baron. Perhaps it was the incident when the Red Baron opened fire on a British aircraft and, on seeing that his enemy’s gun had jammed, forced him to land, got out and shook his hand. A scion of a proud Prussian family, von Richthofen seemed to share the English view of aerial warfare as a kind of dignified blood sport. The Red Baron was 25 when he was shot down on April 21, 1918. A Canadian pilot, Roy Brown, claimed to have pulled the trigger, but it is an Australian machinegunner, Sergeant Cedric Popkin, who most historians have shown, fired the fatal shot that killed the Red Baron (Manfred von Richthofen).
The 2008 remembrances day will hold renewed significance, for many Australian's after 2008 became a year of Repatriation.
June 02, 2008
HUMAN remains have now been uncovered in all five suspected World War I grave sites in Northern France where unidentified Australian Diggers are believed to lie.
http://www.theblackvault.com/ftopicp-589343-.html#589343
May 31, 2008
THEY were lost defending Australia against the Japanese.
But it was our former enemy that yesterday solved a 60-year mystery by uncovering the last of six Catalina flying boats lost in Darwin harbour during World War II.
The final resting place of the last Catalina has eluded historians for decades.
Yesterday, it was revealed that Japan's biggest resources company, gas giant Ipex, had found it while surveying the seabed as part of its plan to build a $12 billion liquefied natural gas plant in the harbour
http://www.theblackvault.com/ftopic-69501-previous.html
March 17, 2008
THE wreckage of HMAS Sydney, sunk off the West Australian coast during World War II, has been found, Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced today.
The Sydney's entire crew of 645 went down with the ship in the Indian Ocean in November, 1941, and its location has been a mystery for more than 66 years.
It was announced yesterday that the wreckage of the German merchant raider Kormoran - which is believed to have sunk the Australian warship - was found in waters about 800 kilometres north of Perth.
http://www.theblackvault.com/ftopicp-575631-.html#575631
February 01, 2008
RESEARCHERS claim to have rediscovered the gruelling "Golden Staircase" climbed by Diggers on Papua New Guinea's Kokoda Track in World War II.
Australian soldiers trudged up and down the muddy, 1m-wide trail of man-made steps to face decisive battles at Imita Ridge, where they had been ordered to repel the Japanese or die trying.
http://www.theblackvault.com/ftopicp-569806-.html#569806
For the Fallen
They shall not grow old,
As we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them,
Nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun,
And in the morning,
We will remember them.
From the poem by Laurence Binyon
In 1915 Australia along with its Allies
(Britain, France and Russia, Italy, and Japan) was at war, fighting the Central Powers (Germany, the Ottoman Empire aka Turkey, and Austria-Hungary). When most people think of WW1 they think of fighting Germans in the trenches across France however Russia was also under attack from the Turks in the Caucasus. To aid their plight the Allies hatched a plan to distract Turkey by attacking the Gallipoli Peninsula, on Turkey's Aegean coast. Once the peninsula was taken the Allies would be able to take control of a strait of water called the Dardanelles and lay siege to Turkey's main city, Istanbul (then Constantinople).
Australian and New Zealand troops then training in Egypt were tasked to participate in the attack. On April 25, 1915, the Australian troops landed on the Gallipoli Peninsula on what they had been told by the British was a nice friendly flat beach. Instead, they found that they had been landed at the incorrect position and faced steep cliffs and constant barrages of enemy fire and shelling. Around 20,000 soldiers landed on the beach over the next two days to face a well organised, well armed, large Turkish force determined to defend their country - and led by Mustafa Kemal, who later became Ataturk, the leader of modern Turkey. It is said that Ataturk just happened to be holidaying in the area and took control of the Turkish forces right at the last moment. Thousands of Australian men died in the hours that followed the landing at the beach that would eventually come to be known as Anzac Cove.
What followed was basically a disaster. The Aussies hung in for several months however could make little headway against the Turks. They had nowhere to go and no real hope however they dug in tenaciously and absorbed whatever the Turks threw at them. Many thousands of Aussie and Kiwi soldiers died, not only from the battle but from disease brought about by the poor living conditions. However from this disaster was born the image of the Aussie Digger, a brave and laconic battler, betrayed by the mother country but facing impossible odds with humour, courage and mateship.
Eventually the ANZAC troops were withdrawn from the peninsula having accomplished nothing. Those that survived went on to fight on other fronts but it was at Gallipoli that the legend was born.
These words attributed to Ataturk are inscribed on a memorial at ANZAC Cove.
"Those heroes that shed their blood
and lost their lives;
You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.
Therefore rest in peace.
There is no difference between the Johnnies
and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side
here in this country of ours.
You, the mothers,
who sent their sons from far away countries,
wipe away your tears;
your sons are now lying in our bosom
and are in peace.
After having lost their lives on this land they have
become our sons as well."
Ataturk, 1934
(The Australian war Memorial at Anzac cove Turkey) |
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Carols by Candlelight started in Australia 1938 & spread around the world Christmas day 1937 Melbourne Dj Norman Banks was walking home & saw a elderly lady sitting @ her window her face lit by a candle as she sang to Christmas carols on the radio. |
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Nesaie
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Its still the 10th of November here. I'll get back to you tomorrow.  |
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Soma: All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects.
Have you had your Soma today? |
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martiandrifter01
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, Veteran's Day here in the US. My contribution: In honor of my uncles Roy, George, Johnny and James. None fell in battle but all served in WWII. A Dauntless tail gunner, Roy was on the USS Hornet when it was sunk; Gunner's Mate George was on the "Lady Lexington". They finished the war on the USS New Mexico, chasing the IJN Yamato and generally giving the Japanese Navy pure Hell. John and James served in the USAAF in the Pacific, both receiving Meritorious Service awards for their efforts to keep airplanes repaired and flying.
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Just for fun, and maybe a chance to learn a little solar system astronomy...
martiandrifter.com |
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lashmar
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Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Location: england
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| Can you imagine what it is like to be some of the last alive. One of them is 112 years old. Can you imagine what they have seen in there life apart from the wars? |
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The sixtheenth commandment “And when asked why, thy in power, shall do, Bugger all to help the general public, yea must answer `don’t worry sheep, lessons have been learned” and if thy sheep are still pissed, say `sorry`” |
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Aquarian
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Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: |
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Rath, you're one of the most ethnocentric individuals I have ever seen.
Not everything should be a homage to Australia or Australian people.
THE VETERANS OF THE WORLD! |
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I think the environment should be put in the category of our national security. Defense of our resources is just as important as defense abroad. Otherwise what is there to defend? ~Robert Redford, Yosemite National Park dedication, 1985 |
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Computer_Guy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:28 am Post subject: |
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I can invision the spirits of billions of war dead shaking thier heads in despair that the autrocity and destruction of war is still hand in hand with mankind. 
Rest in Peace my Brothers. Thank you for you're sacrafice. |
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Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind.
JFK |
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lashmar
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Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Location: england
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| Aquarian wrote: |
Rath, you're one of the most ethnocentric individuals I have ever seen.
Not everything should be a homage to Australia or Australian people.
THE VETERANS OF THE WORLD! |
He can’t help it, 99% of aussies suffer from the Napoleonic disease.
They crave so much to be like you Americans it’s quite sad really. Look at all their sportsmen (I use them as the example because kids want to be like their heroes, and for most kids their heroes are sportsmen) big, brash idiots that don’t know the meaning of “gracious winner”. |
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_________________
The sixtheenth commandment “And when asked why, thy in power, shall do, Bugger all to help the general public, yea must answer `don’t worry sheep, lessons have been learned” and if thy sheep are still pissed, say `sorry`” |
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Jaack
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm happy to honor veterans from allied countries, and those from countries we have fought, given the person admitted they were wrong.
Though funny the bold proclimations and lofty visages war gets when Stalin, Mao, Hitler together have killed more people', civilians, innocent peasants than all the wars combined.
Don't get me wrong, war is horrible, that's why the brave fight them. They understand the reason for their sacrifice, their life's impact on the world and should they give the ultimate sacrifice then the difference they have made with that gift.
If other people weren't on the wrong side then we'd need no more war. |
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"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty." - JFK |
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SRO
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| I honour all fallen warriors, allies or enemy. The enemy need not be able to admit they are wrong, because one cannot know if they are right in something that always has another side of the story. And when I say warriors, I don't mean people that blow innocent people up as their primary target, but rather those than fight against armed opponents in the knowledge that they are fighting for what they believe (hopefully) against those that are doing the same. |
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"Victis honor"
"I'm not arrogant, I'm just the **it."
~Brother. |
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rath
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Joined: Nov 26, 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| lashmar wrote: |
| Aquarian wrote: |
Rath, you're one of the most ethnocentric individuals I have ever seen.
Not everything should be a homage to Australia or Australian people.
THE VETERANS OF THE WORLD! |
He can’t help it, 99% of aussies suffer from the Napoleonic disease.
They crave so much to be like you Americans it’s quite sad really. Look at all their sportsmen (I use them as the example because kids want to be like their heroes, and for most kids their heroes are sportsmen) big, brash idiots that don’t know the meaning of “gracious winner”. |
They crave so much to be like you Americans it’s quite sad.
Thats a bit rich comming from a 2 bit POME.......you joking, right' the USA have nothing we Australians could wont.
Australia gave the world freedom & democracy.
We are everything the British & Americans aspired to become ........
but nerver quite got there.
Tell me wot Australia would ever wont that the USA have |
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Carols by Candlelight started in Australia 1938 & spread around the world Christmas day 1937 Melbourne Dj Norman Banks was walking home & saw a elderly lady sitting @ her window her face lit by a candle as she sang to Christmas carols on the radio. |
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bluesman
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Joined: Sep 11, 2001
Posts: 8329
Location: next to gort the big alien in reeds spring mo.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Tell me wot Australia would ever wont that the USA have |
the flushing toliet...cause your so full of it rath 
bluz |
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lashmar
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Joined: Aug 13, 2008
Posts: 746
Location: england
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| Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| rath wrote: |
| lashmar wrote: |
| Aquarian wrote: |
Rath, you're one of the most ethnocentric individuals I have ever seen.
Not everything should be a homage to Australia or Australian people.
THE VETERANS OF THE WORLD! |
He can’t help it, 99% of aussies suffer from the Napoleonic disease.
They crave so much to be like you Americans it’s quite sad really. Look at all their sportsmen (I use them as the example because kids want to be like their heroes, and for most kids their heroes are sportsmen) big, brash idiots that don’t know the meaning of “gracious winner”. |
They crave so much to be like you Americans it’s quite sad.
Thats a bit rich comming from a 2 bit POME.......you joking, right' the USA have nothing we Australians could wont.
Australia gave the world freedom & democracy.
We are everything the British & Americans aspired to become ........
but nerver quite got there.
Tell me wot Australia would ever wont that the USA have |
What. Are you trying to say we want to be convicted bastards like you? |
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_________________
The sixtheenth commandment “And when asked why, thy in power, shall do, Bugger all to help the general public, yea must answer `don’t worry sheep, lessons have been learned” and if thy sheep are still pissed, say `sorry`” |
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SouthwestRanger
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Today, the 11-11-2008 marks the 90th anniversary of the Armistice that ended World War I and the virtual passing of the Great War from living memory.
Poppies remind a nation to remember veterans
Poppies are worn in the UK to remember armed service veterans
Poppies bloomed on the European battlefields in World War I
The Poppy Factory makes the bright red flower wreaths for the UK
Disabled veterans or disabled family members work at the factory
By Todd Baxter
CNN
(CNN) -- The bright red flowers started as a simple idea in 1922 and have grown into a sight that cannot be missed at this time of year in the UK.
Steven West, whose father served in World War II, has made poppies for 23 years.
1 of 3 "It's very moving when you go to a cemetery and you see all these wreaths lined up from people who placed poppy wreaths on war memorials or cemeteries," says poppy wreath maker Steven West.
"It's very important because it remembers those who have gone before, and given their lives so that we can have the freedom we have today."
But it's not just at memorials and in cemeteries; everywhere you look, a profusion of plastic poppies appear on the lapels of people walking down the street, on TV news anchors, sports stars, and even on the fronts of taxicabs.
From the end of October until November 11, known as Remembrance Day in the UK and Veterans Day in the U.S., wearing the poppy is all about remembering those who have served in the armed forces.
The Poppy Factory is where the artificial poppies seen in England, Wales and Northern Ireland are made. Even the poppy wreaths the queen lays down in honor of the veterans come from this factory. Watch the poppy makers talk about their work »
Why poppies? Because on the battlefields in Belgium and northern France in World War I, the only thing that grew through the devastation were poppies.
They were made famous by the poem "In Flanders Fields" written by a Canadian military doctor, Lt. Col. John McCrae, after a slain comrade was buried:
"In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row ..."
The flowery remembrances of the dead also help those who survived the wars.
"In 1922 ... our founder, Maj. George Howson, who had served on the Western Front during the first world war, had the idea of setting up a charity to provide proper paid employment for disabled ex-service people who had served in the war with him," said Bill Kay, general manager of the Poppy Factory.
In the early days, most of the employees were amputees from the wars, so the plastic poppies were designed so they could be assembled with one hand.
"For November 2008, we have made 38 million Remembrance poppies and roughly 100,000 wreaths," Kay said.
The money made from the donations given for each of the poppies goes to The Royal British Legion to provide financial, social and emotional support to former and current members of the armed forces and their dependants, and to provide jobs for those making the poppies.
Today, 43 employees work in the factory, and there's also a network of 80 to 90 people who make the bulk of the poppies from their homes. Some of the employees are disabled veterans, and some are mentally or physically disabled family members of veterans.
Although they make the poppies all year round, this time of year is particularly special to workers.
"Every one I do, I know is going to someone who is remembering someone who has died in the war or remembering colleagues who died in the war," West, the wreath maker, said as he worked. He has been at the Poppy Factory 23 years, and his father served during World War II.
"It's very important to myself, and it's important to my family members as well," said Peter Biggs, who has worked at the factory since last January. "As an ex-serviceman, this time of year is always very, very much on your mind," he said with a catch in his throat.
"I also think about the youngsters today, those serving in Afghanistan, who are doing such a difficult task, facing an enemy that is basically unseen, whereas in time gone by we faced an enemy that we knew, who wore uniforms." he said.
After looking through some photographs of himself serving in the Falklands, Biggs continued: "We must not forget the fact that there are more people than our own that get wounded in a war. There is no winners in a war, there are only ever losers. A lesson we still need to learn, but we are moving towards it ... hopefully
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Nesaie
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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I missed yesterday, but to those that have been forgotten...on the streets after enlisting...to the real Vets who marched across this land to get their bonuses, and McCarthur shot at them and their families on the White House grounds, after the bonus march...to those who still sleep on the streets...to the Vietnam Vet who offered his bottle to me...Robert Smith!
May we never forget!
May we never forget what our own government did to those who peacefully asked for their promised money, and our own government shot at them. May we never forget how far those soldiers went to ask for their bonuses after WWI, to only live in shanty towns and be shot at, as well as their wives and children.
Yes, yesterday was a day of remembrance for those brave American soldiers who only asked for honesty. |
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Soma: All the advantages of Christianity and alcohol; none of their defects.
Have you had your Soma today? |
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